Global Journal of Human Social Science, C: Sociology and Culture, Volume 22 Issue 6

judgement an episode in the history of India, never an epoch-maker. Gandhi has already vanished from the memory of people of this country. His memory is kept up because of Congress Party. You see annually it gives holiday, either on his birthday or some other day connected with some event in his life, has a celebration every year going on for 7 days in a week, naturally people’s memory is revived, but if this artificial respiration were not given, I think Gandhi would be long forgotten. Interviewer: You don’t feel that he fundamentally changed the aspect? Babasaheb: Not at all, not at all. In fact, he was all the time double-dealing. He conducted two papers, one in English the Harijan, before that young India, and in Gujarat, he conducted another paper you see, which is called the Deen Bandhu, something like that. If you read these two papers you will see how Mr Gandhi was deceiving the people. In the English newspaper, he posed himself as an opponent of caste system, and of untouchability, and that he was the democrat. But if you read his Gujarati magazine you will see him more as an orthodox man, he has been supporting the caste system, the varanaashrama dharma, or all the orthodox dogmas which have kept India down all through ages. In fact, someone ought to write Mr Gandhi’s biography by making a comparative study of the statements made by Mr Gandhi in his Harijan and the statements made by Mr Gandhi in his Gujarati paper, there are seven volumes of it. The western world only reads the English paper, where Mr Gandhi in order to keep himself in the esteem of western people who believes in democracy was advocating democratic ideals. But you got to see also what he actually talked to the people in his vernacular paper, nobody seems to have made any reference. All the biographies that have been written of him you see are based on his Harijan and the young India not upon the Gujarati writings of Mr Gandhi. Interviewer: Then what was his real intention to schedule caste and the structure? Babasaheb: Well, he only wanted, you see there are two things about the schedule caste, we want untouchability to be abolished you see, but we also want you to see that we must be given equal opportunity so that we may rise to the level of other classes, mere washing of untouchability is no concept at all. We have been carrying on with untouchability for last 2000 years, nobody has bothered about it, you see nobody has bothered about it. Yes, there are some disabilities which are very harmful for example that people can’t take out water, people can’t have land to cultivate and earn their livelihood. But other things which are far more important namely they should have the same status in the country and they should have the opportunity to hold high offices so that not only their dignity will rise but also, they will get what I call strategic positions from which they could they could protect their own people, Mr Gandhi was totally opposed, totally opposed. Interviewer: He was content with things like temple entry? Babasaheb: The temple entry, that was all things he wanted to do. Nobody cares about the Hindu temples now, the untouchables have become so conscious of the fact that temple going is of no consequence at all, he will live in untouchable quarters just the same, whether you went to the temple or you did not go to the temple. People for instance in advent time would not allow untouchables to travel by railway because of the pollution. Now they don’t mind because railways don’t make any separate arrangements. Because they travel together on the train it doesn’t follow, you see that their life in the villages vis-a-vis the Hindus has been uninitiated (without knowledge) you see. Whenever the Hindus and the untouchables were allied set at railway train, you see they assume their old roles. Interviewer: So, you would say Gandhi was an orthodox Hindu? Babasaheb: Yes he was an absolutely orthodox Hindu. He was never a reformer, he has no dynamics in him, all this talks about untouchability were just for the purpose of making the untouchables drawn into the Congress, that was one thing. Secondly, he wanted the untouchables should not oppose his movement swaraj. I don’t think beyond that he has any real motive of uplift; he wasn’t like Garrison (Oswald Garrison Villard) in the United States who fought for the negroes (Blacks). Interviewer: Nowcasting your mind back to the Poona pact, you were out there, can you remember little of them what Gandhi said to you, what you said to him? Babasaheb: (In lighter vein) yeah Ok ok, I know it very well, I know it very well. You see the British government had in the original award, which Macdonald had given, you see had accepted my suggestion. I said look here the Hindus want you to see that there should be common electorate so that there will be separatist feeling between the scheduled caste and the Hindus. We think that if you had common electorate, we would be submerged you see and the nominees of the scheduled castes who would be elected would be really slaves of the Hindus, not independent people. Now I told Mr Ramsay Macdonald this is short of the theme you see that he might do, give us separate electorate you see and also give us separate vote in general elections you see. So that Gandhi can’t say that we are separated in point of election. First of all, my contention was these, that for five years we live separately from the Hindus with no kind of intercourse, intercommunication you see of social, spiritual sort you see. What can one day of cycle of participation you see in a common electorate do? To remove these hardened crusts you see of separatism which has grown for centuries, it is a foolish thing to think that if two people vote together in a common poll, their hearts are going to change. It is nothing of that kind. Mr Gandhi has got his madness in him. Well, let this be set aside. You see by this kind of system give untouchables to vote, you see and give them a population representation of ratio, so that the weight age would be in turns of votes and not in turns of representative. So that the Gandhi and other may not complain. You see that Ramsay Macdonald accepted. You see the award was really was my suggestion, I wrote him letters to him from the Naples. you see this is what I would like him to do. You see so that there may be no problem. This is exactly what he did, gave us separate electorate and also a vote in general election. But Gandhi didn’t want that we should send our true representative you see, therefore he didn’t want the separate electorate part of the award and went on fast you see went on fast. Then it all came to me, you can say well, the British government said if he agrees to abandon the award then we have no objection, you see. But we can abandon the award ourselves, we have given the award, we have taken all things in consideration, we think this is the best. You ought to read Volume XXII Issue VI Version I 4 ( ) Global Journal of Human Social Science - Year 2022 © 2022 Global Journals C Babasaheb: The Unsung Hero of India